Failed gt2 ceramics

[karll]

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www.picturesupload.com/show.php/116014_lennardgt2010.jpg.html
www.picturesupload.com/show.php/116019_lennardgt2001.jpg.html
www.picturesupload.com/show.php/116020_lennardgt2008.jpg.html

here are pics of my ceramics that have done 17k and no track use at all... porsche today said that they would not cover them...meant to last 300,000 miles my arse... quote" designed to cope with extreme conditions on road and track" in the brochure...."withstand 1700 degrees"...
i am very disapointed with them today to tell me that they failed due to overheating... how do you over heat them if they are meant to cope with 1700 degrees on the track... i dont know...??
I am a big porsche fan with a 997 s and a boxsters s and a cayenne in the family and maybe a gt3 on the way and i have never once asked porsche for anything before... think my 997 gt3 is not being ordered now... how can they tell me at 17k that its my fault.. its a faulty product as you fellow pistonheaders all know...!! strangely porsche replaced them on a lot of cars on here....only bought the car 5 months ago off a opc... very pissed off...racked up 400 euro in rent a car already while car sits up on the ramp....this surely is not the way to treat a good customer... ???

[Gastro]

Its absolutely shocking............ really sorry to hear about this.
Most have switched to steels and just tried to forget about it.. :(

[Guy]

Cem,

Serious point here, perhaps for all us, but why not register a website like www.failedpccb.com and start collating cases of failed ceramics, or just link to a special section of this forum, so it required no maintenance. This could enable the publicity of the real situation about ceramics, rather than the myth that is perpetuated and would might Porsche actually do something about it (like specifically warrantying them).

I personally know at least 6 people now who have had failed PCCBs in very low mileages.

Guy

[Gastro]

On a serious point - why, why, why don't you guys take a group legal action against Porsche ??

:confused:

[Klint]

What an arse!

Puts me off using the Turbo S!

[karll]

legal action is the last course of action.... im annoyed because i am being very reasonable and calm about the matter... its no skin off porsches back to supply discs and keep me happy... if a independent can supply them at 1200 stering each the what do they cost porsche... ??? im pissed off....!!!!

[Blow Dog]

Cem,

Serious point here, perhaps for all us, but why not register a website like www.failedpccb.com and start collating cases of failed ceramics, or just link to a special section of this forum, so it required no maintenance. This could enable the publicity of the real situation about ceramics, rather than the myth that is perpetuated and would might Porsche actually do something about it (like specifically warrantying them).

I personally know at least 6 people now who have had failed PCCBs in very low mileages.

Guy

Consider it done.

[DanH]

On a serious point - why, why, why don't you guys take a group legal action against Porsche ??

:confused:

Because there is no provision for doing a class action under English law. Some mug would have to do it all himself, and I dunno how easy a case it would be. They'd certainly roll out all their highly paid experts and then try and do you for costs if you lose.

Similar problem with the corroding alloys.

[Gastro]

Because there is no provision for doing a class action under English law. Some mug would have to do it all himself, and I dunno how easy a case it would be. They'd certainly roll out all their highly paid experts and then try and do you for costs if you lose.

Similar problem with the corroding alloys.

Well thats not what my solicitor friend has told me.....
Anyway - people seem happier to whine on about it rather than take the fight to the people. :rolleyes:

[Henry CSL]

Count me out but use my pics.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d2/HenryGT2/DSCF0002.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d2/HenryGT2/DSCF0014.jpg

H.:eek:

[Blow Dog]

I've bought the domain and will set the site up soon.

[DanH]

Well thats not what my solicitor friend has told me.....
Anyway - people seem happier to whine on about it rather than take the fight to the people. :rolleyes:

Well if he knows how to go about it, I'd love to know more details. Could organise something similar re. the alloy wheels. My father and wife are both solicitors and they didn't think it was possible, although this type of work isn't their speciality.

Taking the fight to Porsche is potentially very expensive, which is why people shy away. There is also a fair chance that those have initiated such proceedings may have settled outside of court with Porsche whilst signing an NDA to keep them quiet.

[Gastro]

Well if he knows how to go about it, I'd love to know more details. Could organise something similar re. the alloy wheels. My father and wife are both solicitors and they didn't think it was possible, although this type of work isn't their speciality.

Taking the fight to Porsche is potentially very expensive, which is why people shy away. There is also a fair chance that those have initiated such proceedings may have settled outside of court with Porsche whilst signing an NDA to keep them quiet.

Fair do's - I did speak about this case (PCCB's and Porsche) - and as you rightly say, the costs can be prohibitive and long with no guarantees at the end of the day..........

He also said these companies can do almost what they want and get away with it - such is the colour of money :(

[Philip]

There are rough equivalents of the US class action over here - group litigation orders and representative proceedings - but it's not going to happen for this sort of thing.

The US class actions are lawyer-driven - they're after a thick cut of any potential punitive damages payout, and no English court would ever dream of awarding punitive/exemplary damages in a situation like this.

Phil

[DanH]

To be honest, if legal proceedings haven't happened in the US, and it hasn't, we have no chance here. There was a chap trying to organise it, but his backers dropped out when the costs became apparent and the lawyers clearly didn't think chances of winning were high enough to do it no win no fee...

Gastro as you say, it is shockingly easy to sell defective products, sweep it under the carpet and launch the next model. Just sent back a brand new ADSL router that can't hold connection (Netgear DG834PN if anyone needs to avoid a crap piece of hardware).

[Gastro]

Cem - is the PCCB site up and running yet ? :)

[ChrisB]

This is a very interesting thread, valuable to anyone else considering them or having to live with them and concerned they'll fail.
Good luck with getting something from Porsche Karl.

[Gastro]

Cem - is the PCCB site up and running yet ? :)

Cem >>> ??? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Blow Dog]

Ack - yes it is!

Sorry, I've been so busy I completely forgot - will have something ready by tomorrow.

[RoadRunner]

Interesting thread! but where is the evidence of porsche saying these claims.

I've just done a quick online check to see what porsche say about their pccb's and I can't find anything that misleads the sale of the products in a way that would cause porsche concern.

Porsche UK (http://www.porsche.com/uk/models/carrera-gt/modelinformation/safety/brakingsystempccb/) really targets the pccbs for weight reduction and greater deceleration which would seem ideal for the track use aka GT2/3, RS. The last paragraph mentions remarkable durability and rate of wear is remarkably low compared with conventional braking systems but as they do not state this as fact (unlike the 50% weight difference). Therefore I might be wrong but the prosecution team would need to disprove this comment instead of porsche having to defend it.

Right now its not looking good at all.

Karl mentions the brakes are meant to cope with 1700 degrees. A big fact by porsche if they say that! So I search again and found Porsche Belgium (http://content3.eu.porsche.com/prod/markets_911/911_common.nsf/belenglish/cab_safety_pccb?OpenDocument&sc=carrera_cabriolet.nsf) mentioning 1700 degrees is during the process of the discs, not during sustained use on track/road.

Based on the above I see the pccbs main aim is to reduce weight while improving braking and durability. The latter is questionable but not enough to take porsche to court unless a) controlled 3rd party test(s) were conducted and b) porsche to release internal documents backing their vague, nonfactual claim.

I think the main grudge is the price of the replacements. But porsche would just say the pccbs are optional and its down to the customer to way up the benefits over the running cost of steels.

result goliath 1 – david 0

[RoadRunner]

(Netgear DG834PN if anyone needs to avoid a crap piece of hardware).

How about NETGEAR's 1000% range claim :runaway: fortunately sales talk is not regarded as fact unless the manufacture states a factual claim on the product.

I say fortunately because if all information had to be backed up with fact then law suits would quadruple in the first few mintues let alone over night. It’s bad enough now!

When making a purchasing decision consumers do have the option to research the product or obtain unbiased 3rd party advice. Its just knowing were to look.

[Blow Dog]

All will be apparent very soon :)

[tonygt3]

I see the latest Bently's have their PCCB guaranteed for life.

Do we know if the latest PCCB's are now fit for purpose ?

TonyW

[Guy]

Roadrunner,

They did make specific claims on both the websites and brochures about what PCCB could cope with, however they have subsequently revised both the brochures and the websites to remove/alter these claims.

Guy

[DanH]

I see the latest Bently's have their PCCB guaranteed for life.

Do we know if the latest PCCB's are now fit for purpose ?

TonyW


There are some reports of them having problems. It appears they are now onto Gen3, or they have gone back to Gen1 Carrera GT disks for the 997s (same size rotors).